Motorcycle Cornering: Brake then Gas then Turn

Motorcycle Cornering: Brake then Gas then Turn



please subscribe to help you and your motorcycle perform better Dave Williams editor here with today's video break gas turn the Dave Moss mantra we covered this sometime last year in a truck chat so here we've got it in some context with a couple of riders also zip tie usage just what do you measure with it and why so you get a twofer with this one I've never been on a track day and I want to get it set up for mine welcome to the track thank you absolutely so how many miles are on your bike that's it that's it time for it together time to let it breathe 30 30 30 30 that so generally at the track the rear is always lower okay because we want grip the river is always higher on the street because we want longevity so we put this on at the track day because it shows us how much travel you're using and then based on that we know if you're too stiff or too soft and we can monitor it accordingly welcome thank you and I will be seeing you after each session is there soon okay yes we always want to check how much travel you use on the first go-around right so at this point you going so slow yes you're using half you travel if you came in and you were using this much there's a problem right so at least in going around the track in third gear there's enough momentum to make the bike go backwards and forwards you can tell is in third gear the whole time on this next session like I said get one of those guys down there and have them follow you around and show you the lines so you know where you're going and that will also show you speed the balloon trailer yeah or all the coaches go introduce yourself okay and then come back and get your biking Gary Eliza all right helmet in the chair did you get some help for that session yeah so the first thing we've got to always check is zip tie where is it but not but right so you can use all about seven millimeters of that but the back tire that's got lots of boogers on it here but at the moment those full right off we just wipe away so we're always taught on the road break turn okay go right right now that's because we don't know the road we can't see it we don't know what's around the corner and there's something always coming here it's the same Road it loose back on itself and everything is a hundred percent predictable right so we don't need to do brake turn – we don't need to do that what we need to do is start trusting where we are in time and space if we trust the track isn't going to change is it so now what you've got to do is time your acceleration so you brake early you get set up you're comfortable and then drive through the corner that doesn't mean accelerate it means Drive so the goal is by the end of the day here it's a heart because this is a different texture and color so this needs to go into the middle of the trip about two thirds down to there so what that means is we change the breaks gas in turn but hold it still just a paradigm shift because the track is a hundred percent dependable there's nothing coming the other way right even if it's blind if you hit this point in this point you go into that one so now we've got to work on your head about breaking in an area that is comfortable and then get off the brakes early and drive the bike through the corner most of the corners here allow you to do that that complex over there won't yes because it's a little intimidating very because you've got to go in out up and around and down and but this whole side of the track is very easy that you so get through navigating this then when you get to here hold it on don't write hold it on and keep it still now if the bike wobbles you're going too slow really it's a gyro right when a gyro loses its speed what happens falls over so if you feel the bike wobble just give it a little bit more throttle and hold it still again ooh speed is my friend because you're coming from a slow place to the fast place so that paradigm shift means confidence with the throttle and at the learning stage speed is what you're fearful of but that also makes the bike wobble okay so me next run find a different coach have them take you around again and tell them you're working on driving through the corner all right so now you're getting the travel all the way a long way down so that's a huge improvement from this morning because you're getting the coaching and leveraging the coaching you're gonna stop working on that drive piece right try to work on it with some parents coming in a little scared but I'm trying to hold on to it this side over over here only okay not over there so it's better right we've only got a ball of rubber here on the outside so you're on the gas here just about there now so your initial attempt is very favorable now you needed to pick it consistent out on that side of the track excellent works so far excellent no you're doing a really good job because you're paying attention you're trying to do the right thing so that's awesome even more travel used at this point when you getting down there and the travel we actually have to stiffen it up for you so I'm gonna add a bit more pretty low that driving pod on the tire absolutely first-class result brilliant all the debris and all the balls of rubber are gone you've got the perfect wear pattern right here these black dots because the bikes set up for you going faster in the belief that you're getting faster so those are materializing in exactly the spot where they're supposed to be because that's where you're applying the throttle so you're doing extraordinarily well for your first day on a track and everything that he's done for me is beyond extraordinary watch me dragon he knows what I'm doing out there he adjusts my bike completely stock only and I feel like it's my right arm it's a part of me so it's it's possible thank you thank you for trusting me with your motorcycle but more importantly thank you for listening and then trying to build your skill step each session rather than get carried away with being at the tracking on or I can go this fast awesome so congratulations on everything you've succeeded with today now like I said finish the day with quality laps take it take it home with a smile on a grin because when you come back we're gonna start on something different okay all right it sounds wonderful you're welcome all right how can I help first time here it's like a track day with the bike oh really yes Oh excellent which group you win b-minus so you're up shortly yeah have you got your helmet and gloves okay so I'll measure you up on the bike ask you a bunch of questions then you can go get your helmet and gloves so when we're finished you can line up well that way you won't miss your track time okay sure at 45 in the front which is a tad on the soft side springy in the rear so the R is adjusted quite nicely for your weight the front is way too soft so rebound set well boy so a compression and rebound on the bike would hunt almost a hundred percent open much better let's just check pressures before it goes out make sure we don't have 36 42 nope that's fine 31 31 31 that'll do the start have fun thank you seeing a bit wheelies no heartbreaker okay so the setting in the front is massive clearly massively too soft right so the function of the zip tie tells you when you're in the red zone and you stopped riding because at some point you need to throw your bike away because there's no safety buffer at the bottom so we're gonna make the front end stiffer pretty good definitely feel a lot more balanced for sure more comfortable right now the other piece of the puzzle is your zip tie please bury it again did you do any wheelies over the wheelie bump a little bit afterwards very slight okay so that could be a false positive okay so we'll go ahead and make another change now what's happening is you're coasting here and then getting on the gas there so we need to get away from the street mansurov brake turn that's to brake relax okay drive the bike through the corner with 25 to 30 percent throttle just drive it and as soon as you do that that'll disappear we're just used to street behavior this is a closed Road with no oncoming traffic so we always know that when we come over that blind hill it's still there so at that point let's see if you can end your braking early and then drive the bike through the corners the only part that's difficult is in the back corner obviously get through that section and thereafter it should be able to just drive it through and let's see what that does to the rear tire wear okay grab your gear I'll move the bike all right much better okay feels a lot better so travel safe in the back the driving piece yeah see now it's almost all gone off there clean clean back almost right off there's a little bit of tail end debris here but it's not sticking right so not the hard part now is going to be the paradigm shift of break gas turn that takes a lot of confidence in knowing where you are in time and space all right good job enjoy your afternoon and thank you for working with me schedule a remote tuning appointment for you and your bike with Dave via text email Facebook etc contact Dave on Facebook or by email Dave at Dave Moss tuning com

34 Comments on "Motorcycle Cornering: Brake then Gas then Turn"


  1. Using Brake, Gas, Turn method, after the turn-in, which should one be doing mid-corner:
    A. Staying Off the throttle.
    B. Keeping maintenance throttle.
    C. Increasing throttle.

    Thanks Dave!

    Reply

  2. Brake-gas-turn might work if the turn allows you to get on the gas well before the apex. Or if you are going too slow for the corner. When you are looking at the tyre wear I think what you're really advising is to avoid coasting, sitting it up then gunning it out with a sudden increase in power.

    I think it makes more sense to say that once you're at maximum lean to crack the throttle to keep the bike steady, then gradually wind on as you sit the bike up. Even that only works on long or uphill corners.

    Otherwise brake-gas-turn feels like Keith Code advice that may work when pootling about, but will cause bad habits that might stick once you're out of the novice group. Outside of the area around the apex, neutral throttle is just controlled coasting.

    Reply

  3. Good idea with the ziptie. Similar to what we use in mountain biking on our forks with a way to measure sag and travel use.
    Great progress also from those riders especially the first one. Things to think about. That and trail braking the corners, keeping the front under lsome oad as you ride through the apex.

    Reply

  4. What about comparing that to trailbraking ?
    I have been edging the most time off with trailbraking at any corner I can see the line and outcome.
    The b…g…turn is more of a comfort zone of riding on the track perhaps?
    Or am I missing something here?

    Reply

  5. You guys be sure and check Dave’s track schedule and meet up with him.
    He’ll set up your street bike as well as give you pointers. Just a super easy guy to learn from and has a real passion to see you succeed.
    Thank you Dave!

    Reply

  6. Dave came to PIR in Oregon and help me set up my SV650. I had already been racing the bike and even scored a few podiums and a win. But I was fighting the bike and didn't even realize it until Dave set up the bike. He always treats you the same whether you are a competitive racer or first time Track day rider. If Dave is at your track take the time to work with him. Have a notebook at the ready. Thanks Dave! Ian #135

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  7. Great vid. Ironically I have just got back from 2 days at Snetterton on an 09 R1 and have destroyed the right hand side of my rear slick. Left is fine. Right was wearing well until today. Today I have about an inch wide strip of tearing right where you have been describing. A friend suggested I was getting on the throttle too aggressively after the apex which was why it was tearing. Edge of the tyre is smooth, inboard of tyre is smooth. However I do feel that I am driving on a neutral throttle at entry to apex with a constant speed 🤷‍♂️. Need to sort this out otherwise I’m going to be going through tyres like the bike drinks petrol.

    Reply

  8. @Dave – Excellent advice. Cracking the throttle in the middle of corner unloads the front suspension, increasing the chance of a low side, or even a high side if throttle management is poor. I recently tried to tell that to a huge youtuber who teaches motorcycle racing classes. Obviously the top riders in the world are often trail braking deep and cracking the throttle in the middle of the corner, but I don't think that's good for your average track day or beginner racer!

    Reply

  9. I thought you always wanted to keep a tire loaded and be hard on the brakes until the apex and hard on the gas leaving rather than mildly driving through the turn?

    Reply

  10. The title is a little misleading driving to the corner. Sure a neutral throttle after braking but most people trail brake to a greater or lesser degree (not anywhere near to the apex). Many former racers (including Simon Crafar / Neil Hodgson) say "you're turning while OFF the throttle then accelerate gently AFTER the apex. Tomato Tomayto I suppose.

    Reply

  11. Though most of the chapters were already covered i loved that you had made it even more easier to understand.. I am getting better in setting up suspension .

    Mr. Williams awesome edit now i am able to keep up with the info, just crisp to the point.

    the tyre gradation is still something i am not able to pick up from video (it could be me ;))

    I interpret it as using the gas (throttle) early on the turn … = Break – Gas (throttle) – Turn

    Reply

  12. I have admired Dave and the entire team for quite some time. I've gotta ask, does the team ever make it to the east coast? I'm specifically curious to know if you ever have or ever will visit New Jersey Motorsports Park? Thanks for the vids and all the knowledge!

    Reply

  13. Dave is the master. Go subscribe to his premium content. It's completely worth it. (BTW, I've never met Dave and I'm not affiliated, I just really appreciate his services and knowledge)

    Reply

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